» Spotlight on From Busto to Robusto - Director's Interview
DeucesCracked, in conjunction with 918 Films and Robusto LLC, created the ground breaking documentary, From Busto to Robusto, featuring the poker journey of Greg 'Zeebo' Lavery. The poker community really enjoyed an honest quality perspective of one poker player's life. The team is back for a second From Busto to Robusto documentary featuring Andrew 'Good2CU' Robl, which debuts March 28th. Ryan Firpo, the director, took a few minutes to discuss the documentary process and series.
What does the title, From Busto to Robusto, signify?
From Busto to Robusto is derived from the online poker community. It's another way to say "from rags to riches" or from broke to wealthy.
How did you select Greg 'Zeebo' Lavery as your first subject?
I was always aware of Greg through his blog. A few years ago, he had one of the most entertaining poker blogs on the Internet which was made doubly interesting because he was one of the biggest winners online at the time. He was also someone who was actively involved in the online poker community and somewhat of an online poker celebrity. When I first started thinking about subjects for From Busto to Robusto, I always kept him in the back of my mind.
Then in the fall of 2007, Greg spoke candidly in his blog about his battle with bi-polar disorder. It was really surprising as his previous entries gave no indication that he was struggling with something like this. As I read the posts describing his experience at the hospital and his state of mind at the time, it became clear there was at least an indirect connection to his breakdown and his involvement in the online poker world. I don't think online poker or too much time spent online caused his mental breakdown, but it may have been a contributing factor. The isolation factor is something many online pros struggle with, a large part of the online professional's psychology. It's something I knew I wanted to explore eventually and Greg's story just happened to be the perfect opportunity.
What reaction did you get from the poker community when From Busto to Robusto came out?
Overall, the reaction was extremely positive. I remember being extremely nervous the day we released it. Two plus Two is a tough crowd. I felt like if the first response to our thread in NVG wasn't positive, we were in big trouble. When the support came pouring in the way it did, I remember feeling this sense of relief followed by elation. I'm not a professional poker player, and since most of the viewers are, I was anxious about whether or not they'd feel I got it right. The last thing I wanted to do was deliver a documentary that felt inauthentic to the online poker world. Based on my conversations with most poker players since it came out, I think we did okay.
There were some who felt that for your first effort, you could have selected a more positive portrayal of a poker player who didn't have as many struggles. What do you say to that?
I think they have a point. If this were a major network or studio production and we had already shot and edited every episode before we released them to the public, we probably would have chosen a different story as an introduction to the project. But we're a small company with limited resources and we have to take things as they come. The biggest concern from the beginning was: How do you make a compelling film about people sitting in front of their computers clicking buttons? To address this, I decided to choose someone with a strong dramatic story -- a story with a clear structure and dramatic arch. In many ways, at least from a storytelling perspective, Greg was a conservative choice because I knew there was already a strong narrative on which to build -- that narrative being his personal struggle with bipolar disorder. This gave me something to fall back on if our worst fears came true and the online poker aspect didn't actually work for the screen. That said, I don't think I'd ever like to make (or watch) a film about a character who faces no adversity.
Were you pleased with the end result?
I'm very pleased. The biggest surprise to me was how it ended up being a love story. I knew Erin was an important part of Greg's life when we went out to Madison, but I didn't expect her to play such a major role in the documentary. When I watch it now, I'm surprised by how moved I get when the end credits start to roll. It's a sweet story with a happy ending which is much different from the films I've made in the past. Also, it's the first documentary I ever made, so that coupled with the fact that it's an emotional story makes it sentimental to me.
I found myself enjoying the documentary so much that I wanted it to continue and delve deeper. Where do you draw the line on length and depth of study?
I don't draw a line. This is my first documentary, so much of this is a learning experience for me. I didn't have any pre-conceived rules when I went into it. I think any limitations on depth of study have to do with the limited time we spend with the subjects. Most character-based documentaries are shot over the course of a couple years. We only shoot for a few days. So a lot of it depends on whatever random events that happen on those days and whatever mood the subject is in. On top of that, I'm usually meeting the subjects for the first time only a day before we start shooting. So there's a certain level of comfort that needs to set in before we can start "getting deep". That said, there were definitely times where I felt I was intruding on matters that were too personal. I'm a modest guy and don't like to make people feel uncomfortable, so in those cases we'd usually change the subject. I suppose this is something I'll get more comfortable with as I gain more experience.
Was the goal always to make this a series of documentaries featuring a variety of poker players?
The goal was always to make a feature length documentary about online poker. With Zeebo, the idea was that we'd shoot enough to make a short film which we would then use to raise funds to complete a feature. We titled it "Episode One" because a web-series seemed like a good idea for a long-term marketing plan, and we wanted to give ourselves that option. We didn't know if there would be an "Episode Two" at the time, but everyone loved it so much we decided to make another one. Where it goes from here depends a lot on the success of "Episode Two". We've grown more ambitious and are trying something bigger with this release. The thing about documentary film is you can always edit it. Any footage we accumulate with more webisodes can always be re-used in a feature down the road. Our goals shift with the scope of the project.
How do you go about identifying prospective candidates for the documentary?
My first pre-requisite is that he/she is introspective. These films are built around one-on-one conversations (the interviews) I have with the subjects. As such, it's important for me to talk with someone who has spent a lot of time thinking about the topics we're discussing. Of course, everyone is introspective to some degree, but there are those who clearly place more value on self-analysis. These personality types typically prove to be the best interview subjects. Fortunately, these personality types are common in the poker world. After introspective, I look for people who have a story to tell which mostly means one with an identifiable climax. Ideally I want to shoot a story where I know the end beforehand. The end is the most important part of a story. Once you have the ending, you can work backwards and fill in the rest. With Greg, I knew the story of his battle with bipolar disorder would represent the last act of the movie before we started shooting. On top of that, with all these individual profiles we're trying to strike a balance, trying to create a complete portrait of the online poker world, to tell the whole story. When searching for candidates, I try and look for people who represent one particular element of what I see as the whole story.
How long does it typically take to shoot the raw footage?
With Zeebo we shot four days in Madison. With Andrew we shot three days in Michigan and five in Las Vegas. We also shot six days with Dan Morris (one the the executive producers) which proved to be more useful as supplemental material rather than a stand alone episode.
Who make up the team that put together the From Busto to Robusto documentary?
The executive producers, without whom this project wouldn't be possible, are Jay Rosenkrantz (KRANTZ), Dean Strachan (UKPartyGirl) and Dan Morris (DJ Sensei). Then there's my cameraman and good friend, Michael Epple, who shot all the footage and myself, the producer, director and editor. Initially, it was just Jay and I. He's the one who brought in Dan and Dean and that's when we actually got organized enough to start shooting.
What is involved in the production process and how long does that part typically take?
Well, first there's selecting a subject. This is an ongoing process that involves me keeping up to date with the happenings of the online poker world -- who just won a tournament, who went broke, who jumped in a shark tank, etc. The NVG forum on Two Plus Two is essentially my daily newspaper. I'm constantly checking there for possible stories and subjects to feature in future episodes. Once we choose a candidate, I'll e-mail them, talk to them on AIM and on the phone, just generally try and get an idea of who they are and what I should expect from them. I'll give them mini-trial interviews based on what I think I'd ask while shooting to try and get some sense of the completed film from their answers. During this time, I'm constantly brainstorming with the rest of Robusto LLC. This happens over the course of 2-3 weeks.
Once we choose someone, there's typically 3-4 weeks of planning logistics, like shooting schedule, budget, travel, additional crew, etc. We shot Greg's episode in four days in Madison. With Andrew, we spent three days with him in Michigan then four days in Las Vegas. Five months later we went back to pick up an extra interview. The longest part of the process is the editing. We accumulate an average of maybe five hours of footage for every day we shoot. So by the time we finished shooting Episode Two, there was nearly 200 hours of raw material to sort through. It takes a great many sleepless nights and a lot of trial and error before you even begin to discover the story. When you finally do, you're only 25% done. From beginning to end, the editing process typically takes 12-14 weeks. The final step is sound mixing and color correction which, in a nutshell, is polishing up the finished product so it sounds and looks as good as it can. This takes about a week.
All and all, from conception to completion it takes 18-22 weeks per episode.
Who do you consider the main audience for these documentaries?
The main audience is obviously the online poker community -- more specifically those at Two plus Two. We said it before: this is a project made by poker players for poker players. So I think the hardcore and casual poker viewer is going to enjoy From Busto to Robusto. Outside of that, anyone who loves a good human interest story or subculture documentary would find something to appreciate. The one thing I hear over and over from professional poker players is how they used this film as a way to explain professional poker to their friends and family -- how it helps verbalize what they couldn't make them understand before. I've also had people tell me FBTR is the only poker film their non-poker wife or husband actually finished watching with them. So I think there's a lot of appeal to people outside of the poker community as well.
How did you select Andrew 'Good2CU' Robl as your second subject?
First of all, we wanted to feature someone who was the polar opposite of Greg. After Zeebo, some people had the impression that that was the only thing we had to say about online poker. Not at all. Online poker is filled with a wide range of personalities who lead very different lives. We want to give people the whole picture. Zeebo represents one archetype of a typical online pro, but on the opposite end of the spectrum there are the online poker "ballas" -- the kids who see this new found wealth as an opportunity to do all the crazy, opulent things they never did as broke college (or sometimes high school) students. We wanted to juxtapose this lifestyle with Greg's simpler, more subdued life. I couldn't think of a better representative than the Original Ship-It-Holla-Balla.
Andrew 'good2cu' Robl, 23, has a more visible profile in the poker world, living in Las Vegas and being regularly seen on poker TV shows. He also was a part of the original "Ship It Holla Ballas", a youthful group of poker players who prominently displayed their excessive lifestyles in poker. He regularly plays high stakes poker online, having joined the pro team at Victory Poker recently and promoting himself and various products.
How does this second documentary differ from the first one?
As I said before, Andrew is a different personality than Greg. Most successful online poker players have a similar poker background -- the fifty dollar deposit they turned into millions -- but it's how they've reacted to that success that makes them unique. Andrew's reaction has been different than Greg's. He has different world-view and different life goals. Whereas Greg is more of an introvert who prefers a quiet night at home, Andrew moved to Las Vegas so he could go out and party every night. Almost all of Andrew's friends are professional gamblers. The gambling subculture, and all the bells and whistles that come with it, is a major part of his daily life while Greg's only connection to the gambling world is through the online community. If "Episode One" is about the dangers of online poker isolation, then "Episode Two" is about walking the fine line between degenerate and professional gambler.
On the poker forums, Andrew Robl is a more polarizing figure that seems to have significant numbers of fans and detractors. How do you capture a fair depiction of his poker journey and life without pandering to the natural promotional desires to show someone in their best light?
Like most real-live people, Andrew is multi-dimensional. A lot of the stuff you're referring to online is an exaggeration of one aspect of his personality. In the same way that certain athletes or celebrities "play to the cameras" to attract attention, Andrew was playing to his online audience. It's not really who he is -- or at least, it's not entirely who he is. I think whatever success I've had at getting my subjects to open up and show us their true personality is directly reliant on my knowledge of the online poker world and lifestyle. I'm not an online pro, but through Two Plus Two and my friendships with poker professionals, I have a good idea of what it's like to be one. I think because of that they feel comfortable with me. They feel like we share a common knowledge and that enables them to relax and drop their guard. I treated my interviews with Andrew the same way I did with Greg, as two peers talking about something they both love. Whatever came out of Andrew's mouth in that situation was what ended up on the screen.
What is your ultimate goal for the From Busto to Robusto documentary series?
The ultimate goal is to re-cut everything into a feature-length documentary that tells the definitive story of online poker to as wide an audience as possible. It is an attempt to capture that unique period of time when online poker was exploding in dorm rooms across America, the period that produced the stars of From Busto To Robusto.
For fans of the series, have you identified your next subject or do you have an anticipated schedule for when the third installment might come out?
Unfortunately, I can't comment on that right now.
Thanks for your time, Ryan.
View Episode 1 of From Busto to Robusto - Zeebo
View Episode 2 of From Busto to Robusto - Good2CU
