» Alec 'Traheho' Torelli Interview
Alec 'Traheho' Torelli is a well known, young high stakes player who has experienced much success both live and online. He won both Event 4 and Event 6 of the 2008 Bellagio Festa al Lago Classic, as well as an FTOPS main event in 2007 for $250k. Alec teaches regularly at PokerSwat.com and is highly active within their top class training facilities. PokerSwat is a European-run poker training site and provides content from many of the internet's top players. Poker Curious - in association with PokerSwat - has gained unrivaled access to young poker superstar Alec Torelli. A thoughtful, even insightful, writer, he maintains a popular blog on CardPlayer. We thought Alec would be an ideal candidate for a Poker Curious interview.
Welcome to Poker Curious, Alec. Let's start from the beginning. Can you give us the rundown on how you first became interested in poker?
I don't say this much in interviews, but I actually started playing at family gatherings for holidays... Thanksgiving, Christmas or birthdays, when I was 8 or 10. In fact, I have this great picture of me at the poker table at a family gathering where they had to stack 3 or 4 books under me, so I could be high enough to play. It would be like a $5 buy-in and my mother would stake me. I don't recall if I ever won, but I was always extremely intrigued by the game. Then I remember the first time playing Texas Hold'em. My aunt introduced it to me as a dealer's choice game when I was around 12. I remember it was more complicated than 5-card draw and other games we had played previously.
I really got involved when I was 16 and the poker boom was in full force and constantly on television. My friends would periodically host games at their houses. One I remember in particular was at the beach. It was a huge deal, we ordered pizza and had like 20 players. It was a $10 buy-in tournament, and I ended up taking second for $70. It was a huge deal. I was totally elated. I was robusto. After that I remember going home and really wanting to take the game seriously. I was always pretty good with math. I would always hypothetically plan out how much I would play to make a certain amount to have money for my car and expenses. I had a lot of success early, and eventually bought my first poker book Play Poker Like the Pros [by Phil Hellmuth.] Just that small edge was enough to propel me past most of my opponents back then. Just that little bit of extra thinking put me above them. Looking back it makes me laugh, because the only thing good about the book was its title. It had those hilarious architypal players, the Lion, Elephant and Jackal. But it gave me the little edge I needed at the time. I always had a huge hunger to learn and this just started me off on my journey.
When I was 17, I remember having this very interesting conversation with this guy in my poker game. I couldn't convince him there was more than just luck involved in winning. It was an hour-long debate where he insisted there wasn't skill involved in poker. I can't really say I was all that good, but relative to the other players, I did very well. They thought if you got aces, you won and, if you didn't, you lost.
When you made the transition to playing online, how did that go?
I thought it was easy at first, because I was immediately winning. I thought I was a genius. I was 16 and I knew everything, right? But then I realized shortly thereafter, after I started my first downswing, I attributed my downswing to...I'm not sure what. I attributed my upswing to skill and I was very results-oriented. I always thought, I'm winning, so I must be playing good. If I'm losing, I made a mistake. The idea of coolers didnt' really enter into my head. I thought if I had aces, and they have a set, I should find a way to fold 'cause I'm better than everyone else.
It was sort of like a monkey typing Hamlet those first few months. I feel like I ran really well. I won like a $30 tournament for $2500. So that propelled me, to keep playing and work through my inadequacies. I think many successful players have some sort of 'luck story' where they did well in the beginning, so they had enough money to keep them afloat while they improved at the game. And, eventually, I started reading more and studying more, which taught me to better beat the game.
Where did the name Traheho come from?
Traheho comes from my freshman year of High School when I was playing football. I was trying to make an AIM screenname and couldn't think of anything to say. I was on the phone with my friend Will and we were trying to come up with names. My football coach mispronounced my last name "Torelli" and said "Tra - he - ho" as a joke. The name stuck.
What games did you play coming up?
I played everything, MTT's, SNG's and cash games. I recall having a lot of success in MTT's. I remember winning my first tournament about 6 months into it, over Christmas break. My best poker friend and I both final tabled tournaments and won a combined $20k. So we were now both super well off. I turned 18 that following March, and ran that initial money up to $60k. My senior year in high school I was super elated and stoked. I was playing 5-10 No Limit and then...and then I went busto. I never played over 5-10 or occasionally 10-20, but it was a significant downswing.
How did you handle going busto and what did you do to recover?
I honestly don't recall it being that disconcerting. As sick as it sounds, I was like, well, I'm just gonna win. I've always sorta had that feeling. Downswings don't affect me as much as they affect others.
Going bust didn't change how you play the game? Force you to tighten up or impose a strict stop loss?
No, not at all. While I think you should have a good stop loss in mind, I've never been particularly good at following one. I still think it's a very important attribute, though. I always felt I'm going to win eventually, so it would all work out. I don't want to say I was cocky, but I believed in myself and felt I had an edge over the people I played. I mean... everyone thinks that. They ask the average human on a ten point scale how attractive they are and the average person says 7.5. It gives you an idea on the self-bias people have about themselves and some indication of what they think about their poker game.
As for starting back up, it was always understood I could borrow from our poker buddies. Especially my friend who final tabled that tournament. He was way better than me back then. He was sort of the mentor. Then when I dropped out of college the first time and went to the Bahamas I met a bunch of people in the poker world who taught me a ton about the game. Through them I met more friends in the poker world who I trusted and we exchanged pieces or provided loans as needed. That was always a very integral part of my poker career. There were always people who would stake you or help you keep in action.
Does that ever complicate your poker friendships?
I actually think it strengthens them, because we really trust each other. There are not many people in life that you can say, ship me $50k and you know they are going to send it back when you don't have a contract. That's pretty strong if you have a friend you can confidently send that kind of money to regularly. That kind of trust is rare and much valued. Sometimes it's frustrating when you exchange pieces, and they don't cash, but you do. But it happens both ways. I don't get upset about it anymore. I joke a bit with people who ask me, 'what will you do if you go broke?' and I tell them, 'not to worry, I have rich friends.' Some of whom I helped make rich. It goes both ways.
What were your significant 'aha' moments for you online or live?
Definitely winning the first FTOPS event in February of 2007 was pretty strong. I was 19 and I won around $250k. That was huge for me. That really propelled my career. I was playing 10-20 and 25-50 at the time, but I was pretty underolled and had had a pretty big downswing. Actually, before that, I final tabled a Full Tilt tournament for $35k. Shortly thereafter I final tabled Aruba and I made $40k for seventh or eighth. That was only my second live tournament and was a big boost to my confidence. It was also a big step for my parents too. Even though it was results-oriented, they could finally see my potential, playing some great players live and beating them.
Their new admiration and support was a big help and a big relief. It helped me focus and do my best, not only prove myself to them but prove myself to myself. Now I didn't have anymore hindrances to my potential success. My parents had been very concerned I had dropped out of school, so it meant a lot that they believed in me now. I had been a studious kid in high school and I had earned a partial scholarship to SMU. So, it was no surprise they were surprised and disheartened when I dropped out from my business major. Later on I tried returning by taking psychology, but it still wasn't for me. I don't think I'll go back. It doesn't mean I'm not interested in learning, but I won't do the college thing again.
After winning FTOPS, there was no turning back. I had an inordinate amount of money for someone my age. I started playing higher and higher, and I ran up a bunch when I was 19 and 20. There have been some bumps in the road since then, but it's been pretty good.
Do you feel you have reached a plateau of sorts or will you continue trying to rise through the ranks?
Well, I play less, not as often and lower. The games have definitely gotten a lot tougher. It has affected everything. Everyone's a genius now. I don't mean that facetiously. The games are tougher. Everyone's really smart and it sucks 'cause before the games were easy. You could go on the site and it was like an ATM machine before the ban. The [UIGEA] really screwed things up and made it harder to get money on. Then the training sites started to make winning much harder, too. There are now a ton of good players out there. The latest ranks of players may be less well known, but they work hard and are really good players. They may not be known because they don't play tournaments or live, but there are some really good players out there. Income has suffered for everyone. I play less now and play more tournaments. To be honest, I'm looking into other avenues to express myself. I like to write and I'm interested in business, possibly a business in the poker world but away from the tables.
If you aren't working really hard, everyday, your game will slip. It's like professional basketball. The best players don't take time off. Kobe Bryant, as good as he is, doesn't stop working. He knows, if he does, someone else will outwork him. If you aren't working hard, poker is big enough that someone somewhere will be working on their game, if you aren't. There's always a younger genius with more stamina who will come along. When I was coming up, I worked as hard as anyone. I can't imagine anyone working more than we did and we benefited a ton. Now, I will be the first to admit I'm just not doing that and my game has definitely suffered. There are players who haven't slowed and have surpassed my level. I feel that's going to continue to happen and I will play less and less, as I prioritize other things and transition into the business side of things.
In fact, I think what you have done with Poker Curious is genius.
What do you think of Poker Curious?
The site's really impressive. It seems like a huge database and great resource.
What would you say is your greatest poker accomplishment?
Ummmm...I think it definitely has to be winning FTOPS. The other event I'm proud of was getting second in the WSOP Heads Up event. I was so close. It will always stay with me not closing it out, but Kenny Tran is a very good player. It was a classic match up of seasoned live east coast player vs. online young gun west coast player. My friends will never let me hear the end of it.
In all your talk about transitioning away from only poker, you talk as if you are an old man. You are only 22.
Yes, but I feel like an old man in poker. I've played over 2 million hands. Many more hands than most poker pros who've played many more years. I've seen lots of textures for so many flops that I've lost the freshness of the game. The drive and the spark isn't there like it used to be. When you start to be bored, your learning stops and your game suffers. It's not that I know everything about the game, but a lot of the game left is just the grind. When I was 18 and I woke up in the morning, if I could do anything in the world, I would play and live poker. Now it isn't that way. Tomorrow when I get up, I really want to practice piano, read, travel and hike. When I was 18, you couldn't pay me to do those things. I still want to play poker sometimes, but it's much more balanced and less of a priority. I've been very fortunate in poker, so I don't have to worry immediately about making money in pursuing those other activities. I definitely don't take it for granted that I can do anything I want tomorrow. It's a real joy and I'm very lucky. Given that I'm in that spot, I feel it would be foolish not to pursue these other interests while I'm young. I'm never going to have more time than I do now. So, while I'm free of considerable obligation, I want to pursue these interests.
Who do you look up to in the poker world? Both as a person and as a player?
Cole South is a good friend whose attitude and approach to poker and life I admire. He's training for a triathalon, travels all the time, bought a place in DC. I remember last year asking him what he was doing for the main event of the WSOP. He didn't hesitate to say he was skipping it to do some traveling. It just goes to show he lives his life first and, while poker has a role, it doesn't always come first.
Andrew 'Good2CU' Robl is also a good friend whose game I admire a great deal. We've learned a lot from each other. Tom Dwan is also someone whom I'm close to in poker.
Do you feel this life balance helps or hurts your game?
I think it clearly helps. I think having a balanced life with multiple interests keeps you fresher at the table. When you play, you are more likely to play your A game. You might think that playing your B or C game 7 days a week might be better, but I'm not so sure. It's much easier to make optimal decisions when you are having fun and in good spirits. Much more importantly, you are going to be happier. As great as poker is, there is much more to life.
To break it down even further.... Poker is one of the toughest industries to make it to the top. It's very difficult to be a very good player. You need all the right ingredients of bankroll management, knowledge, not risk averse, and other necessary positive attributes. Most people with those attributes could translate their skills to other areas and succeed, even if poker went away. You would never find someone like Cole South living on the streets. He's going to make it wherever he applied his talents.
If you had not found poker, where would you be today?
I probably would just be graduating from college. I don't know what I would be doing. The first time around I studied Marketing. The second time I tried Psychology, but neither stuck.
How many hours a week do you typically play now?
About 20 hours a week, combining heads-up and 6 max. I usually four table my games. And I play some live now, too. Lately I've been playing a few more tournaments to get ready for the WSOP.
What's your computer setup like?
I have a 30-inch and a 20-inch dual monitors that are great.
What do you think about the current status of the high stakes games?
It's strange because there is a small group that play 300-600 and 500-1000 and then you go all the way down to 25-50. There isn't anything steady in between. A lot of the 25-50 regulars are good players but came along more recently. While a lot of the higher players made their money back when the games were better. But it's generally true that the second biggest game is always going to be tougher than the biggest game. The biggest game will always attract some recreational rich players who want to play at the highest levels, despite whether they have the skill for it or not. That's typically not the case for the second biggest game. And it's very difficult with the smaller win rate to move up from 25-50 to attempt the climb to 500-1000.
What specifically makes the games harder now?
It's a combination of things. There have been a number of adjustments to deal with players' aggression. First it was 3 betting light, then 4 betting light and on and on. Players are much more in tune with how to hand read and understand other people's ranges and tendencies. They put a lot more pressure on you pre-flop, and even post flop, in situations where you aren't likely to have a strong hand. It becomes a game of out leveling each other and variance increases dramatically. In the past, people played way more straight forward.
How have you found the teaching experience at PokerSwat?
I have enjoyed doing coaching over Skype before and at PokerSwat. But, videos tilt me. I keep making them, and there's always a problem. I start to lose my enthusiasm when it takes me five tries to make one video. I love the idea of teaching and instruction, but I seem to have no luck on the technical end when I get around to making videos. I feel bad for the listeners, because the fifth time I dub the audio, I can't possibly have the enthusiasm I did the first couple times. Its a weird universe/karma thing with me and videos because I feel I'm the only one. I hope I can figure it out soon, or I may just stop doing it. I enjoy writing a lot, but videos and me don't seem to mesh.
What advice do you give to novice player today who might want to follow in your footsteps?
The poker economy isn't as good as it used to be. The games are a lot tougher and you have to work a lot harder to do well in them. Generally, I wouldn't advise someone to drop out of school for poker. Three years ago, it would have been a different story from me.
Thank you, Alec, for taking the time to answer our questions. Before you go, we have several fun questions inspired by Bravo's Inside the Actors Studio.
What is your favorite fun poker phrase/slang?
You can't win 'em all.
If the poker industry disappeared completely, what other career would you most like to attempt?
I would like to be a writer.
If you were on death row, what would be your last meal?
My best meal ever was in a tiny restaurant in Parma, Italy. So, a similar meal would be ideal.
When your poker career is over, what would you most like to be remembered for?
That poker didn't consume my whole life. I helped others in the poker world try to see other angles and perspective with what to do with the fortunate lifestyle they have because of poker. How they can implement that to make themselves better and happier people. I think it would be cool to not be seen for how I played a particular hand or the skill I had, but more for the lifestyle and the perspective I bring to poker.
